Bigwater Fishing with Ross Robertson
Bigwater Fishing with Ross Robertson

Episode 27 · 7 months ago

Isaac Lakich -Pro Walleye Series Angler - Bigwater Fishing Podcast With Ross Robertson #27


Isaac Lakich has already made quite a name for himself in walleye fishing circles. With 4 wins under his belt in two years the Wisconsin native is on his way to becoming one of the top anglers on Head to Head Fishing Pro Walleye Series.

• 2018 & 2019 Master Walleye Circuit TOY
• 2019 (1st) GBWS-Marinette
• 2019 (1st) MWC-Leech Lake
• 2020 (1st) MWC-Marinette
• 2020 (1st) AIM Championship- Winnebago
• 2020 (2nd) NWT-Oconto

Capt. Ross Robertson has made his complete living chasing walleye as a full time professional angler for more than 20 years. Through the years he has worn many hats including time as a fishing guide, boat salesman, TV host, outdoor writer, product designer, tournament fisherman, speaker, radio host and podcaster to name a few.
Ross fishes ice-out to ice-up on the Great Lakes. He spends the majority of the year walleye fishing on Lake Erie’s Western and Central basins.

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Back another podcast producer. Dude,are you get are you beginning to like these? I've always liked don't.Oh, okay, they're they're long, but it depends on how well youdo. I guess right. Like them. Okay, how well you listen?We're not off to a good start. So here's the deal. We've hada kind of a coleptic mix, you know. We've had industry gurus, we've had female Kayak Anglers, we've had like hardcore guides, we've hadliterally angling legends and kind of everything between some of these guys my friends.Sometimes I don't even know them. We had like Natty Welch, that's ourgreat podcast, I thought, you know, the photographer talking about his time,you know, Tom Petty and some really introspective things, and then MarshalYanda was, yeah, martially on. That was different. I don't knowwhat your favorite was. I probably don't say because they get somebody man,but I kind of like them all. Share we go. Politician. Well, here's a little different. We've got Isaac lockitch. I'm I'm sure ifI said his name right, but all I do know is this kids catchingfish. He's kind of setting he's taken take an interest. Okay, peopleare are like they want to know what's this kid doing right so he's usinga lot of different tactics and things. We're going to talking about a littlelist and really big thing. He's held the business sense to people right nowon a love like how do you get jumping into the fishing business? Andwe've had some old school dudes in there and here's a young guy and he'strying to make it and he's literally like this is his first you're jumping in. So it's gonna be interesting to hear you know again. I did that, but it's been a long time. Yeah, you're becoming like the graybeard. I am the old man. I want to point out to Iyour reverse raccoon eyes from being on the water today. Yeah, that's nothingnew. So, yeah, I know Isaac maybe new, but that's anothernew. We see another podcast with that too, but I laugh every time. So we're going to try to break him out of a shell because he'skind of he's kind of a quiet guy and I you know, I'm youknow I'm sometimes aggressive. I've heard you think serve sir. Certain thank you. That's you know, sometimes I feel like stain we're going to soften theword a little bit. Sometimes I feel like you're just, you know,you're violent towards me, and other times I feel like you're part, you'remy teammate, or am I just messing with you? You just never reallyknow. I think I'm done with this. Let's bring on Isaac and let's findout what it's like for a young kid right now who's whooping people's buttsbut yet to make that news quitting his job. I don't know who alot about what's going on. So he's going to tell us and he isabsolutely I think he's one team of the year. He will on eighteen andnineteen in the MWC and then he went and I think he won the aimchampionship last year. So I mean he's I mean he's got a resume ina short amount of time, twenty some year old kid, and I'm interestedto here bounce with because I honestly don't know a whole lot of Boum.All right, let's bring them on, Isaac. Welcome to the big waterpodcast. Thanks for giving us your time. NOPE, Palm Ross, how youdoing? I wouldn't complain, but producer dudes over here. He's theguy you'll here every now and then tries to keep me on track, whichshe's done a poor job of the last decade plus. But nevertheless, Iwas fishing this morning. Oh, I got a thirteen today. So yeah, yeah, one of my guys are got a fourteen one yesterday. Sothat was where I saw that one on social media. That's a pig,man. How long are those fish measure? The biggest one was thirty two.The other one of those thirty one. Oh my God. But the girlis just honestly the first one there. I thought that was like fight recorddeal because the girth was as big as I caught a fifteen one afew years ago and while more and a few now. But and that one, I thought I had the state record because they just they're just different.They just don't look right and they did presses right. got that freak freaklevel going on kind of thing. That's awesome then. But yeah, itwas. It was a good day, whether it was cooperating, which itwon't tomorrow. But so tell us a little bit, Isaac lack kitch right, that cract bad, especially you get you Wisconsin guys. I love makingfun of Wisconsin. People. I mean I I've been this my whole life. And mean growing up in Wisconsin, you know, outdoors is, youknow, kind of blood bread bread into us here. My Dad and mygrandfather got me into it early young age. I mean I remember, I meansome of my earliest memories are being on the dock at my grandparents house, you know, in the boat with my dad and my grandpa in thewhile I runs in the spring kind of things. So, you know,I've been doing it for daying near my entire life. There's pictures are actuallyat me and my dad backpack when I was like eight months old and yellowstone fly fishing with them. So I, you know, born and raised todo this and then, you know, started doing you know a small littlekids derby stuff, as you know, as I grew up and had theopportunities, you know, whenever we were at around you know there's acorey around here that had like a kids weekend whereas always like they made littlecompetitions out of it. So it started started doing that and did some icederbies and got into high school, did...

...some you know bast some Musky stuffand then slowly here I kind of found my niche in the wide world.And Yeah, the last five six years now I've just been really, reallyfocusing all my time and energy on chasing big wal eyes across the country.So can't complain about that too much. Yeah, I mean I've made nofact I'm always given cheese hads hard time and you're going to be no exception. But there's a lot of guys, I mean you'll like Tom Keenon's afriend of mine who's one of the all time money winners. You know,he's from kind of North Central, if you will, being our Wilson.You know, on Appleton there's he's top couple all time money winners. Yougot sure, Kurt. I mean there's a long list of dudes. Andthen you could even go farther back with some of the older school guys.But you know, more recently sprangle was one of the younger guns. You'rekind of fitting in there. I mean in all honestly, I just lovebuffing guys chops about like because I hate little winnebago so much. But isit you think a lot of those guys from that area are good fishermen becausethey have to fish and just such grinding conditions on so many bodies of water. Yeah, because, I mean, you know, we've said it amillion times when you know, between our friends group and stuff, it's it'sprobably one of the most difficult bodies of water to find any sort of consistencyon and any way, shape or form. So like guys that can figure outthat system, it seems like when they go other places in the countryit just kind of clicks easier. When a Baggo is one of those placeswhere, I mean you got really to technically almost three or four different riversystems almost kind of working through that, you know, whether it's the upperrivers, the Fox and the wolf or, you know the river right through downtownOshkosh, or even the rivers on the north end of the lake likethe Nina and the Manasha. So like, you know, you got all thesedifferent, you know areas. And then you have the lake stuff.So you got, you know, win a Bago itself is sixty something mileslong by twenty miles wide or whatever it is, and you know, massivebody of water, mainly pretty much structuralist, a lot of twenty feet of mud, which makes it, you know, really tough to try to locate fishin that vast you know emptiness of nothing. But then they're still ona rock structure and weeds and, you know, just anything you want tofish Umbago. You can kind of pick your poison and go and do itand you know, to figure it out on a day to day basis,year to year. It's difficult. It definitely it tests you. It makesyou you know, there's a lot of days where you're making decisions not basedon what you did and practice or pretty fish or anything like that, andyou're just doing it off of Gutt in stink past experiences. You know yougot, you know a certain wind direction or you know sun clouds or whatever. You make decisions sometimes based off of just what you know, but evenwhat you were seeing in practice, just because it changes so fast out there. To Yeah, I think you know some of those guys like springle.I mean he grew up over on another supershallow body of water here in Wisconsin, which is beaver Damn Lake, and you know that body of water istough to fish. I mean I've been out there probably five times trying totarget wall eyes and I have not caught a Walleye. Doing it like itis difficult. It's hard. You know, when you get these shallow bodies ofwater. It's not simple. I mean these walt eyes will go upinto six inches of water and it's just not something that a lot of usare used to. So, yeah, it definitely cultivates, you know,a different level of Angler, I would say, for sure, because youyou got to look outside the box every day. Yeah, makes me thinkof like I did some stuff with Mike Gofer on he used to travel witha buddy of mine from back here and some of the stuff he'd go lookat and practice. I'm like why, you know, living on places thatlike I've fished my whole life and I'm like why? But that's again,you know, that's that's how you win and that's that's also how you fallon your face, but that's also how you win. And you know,you you get that stuff that you have yourself right. Oh, definitely.I mean one of my favorite spots on win a Bago is about fifteen feetoff a shoreline and I pitch up underneath the dock to catch wall eyes.Like I mean it's straight dock pitching for WALFIS and there's big ones. Theyare like there's twenty two, twenty three, twenty four inchers, which from theWinn a Bango system is good fish. I mean most days I'm going toBago. If you can put together in nineteen inch fish the limit likeyou're going to be sitting really good in a tournament. For sure. Likeit. Just it doesn't have the big fish like it did. You know, twenty, thirty, forty years ago it seemed just an unbelievable amount ofbull pressure. The last several years we actually just went to a three fishlimit now on the system. There's still no sign limit out there, butthey dropped it from five Fisher Day to three. So we'll see if thatdoes some does some good for the system...

...and maybe helps the size a littlebit. But we'll find out soon. I hope. I hope it bringsit back. I mean I remember stories my dad told me of back in, you know, the s and s, when they were catching fish out there, that it was just insane and for the reason why they're not thereis because they kept them all and brought him home and had fish fries.But you know it. You know, as conservation and that stuff has becomemore where. You know, most of us who are fishing that system regularlyare throwing the you know, eighteen plus in Trish back pretty regularly because thoseare mainly your spawning and they're all eighteen class, which probably sounds really weirdto you coming from earie where you're eighteen to twenty. Three injuries are allmales. Everything else is female. Well, and you know, it's just funnybecause I take a lot of Shit and you know it just the otherday I and then I take shit both ways. It's just kind of funnybecause that guy that caught that giant, you know I kind of said tohim, you know, it's his fish. It's on a guide trip, right, right. We most of my guys as they've been with me along time. Like that guy was a guest of a guy who's fishing mefor a long time. You know, it's his call. You know,it's one of my other guides. He's dealing with the stuff they're but Ikind of said, man, this is take a picture, put on orput on a wall deal, you know, like I mean, you know,let it go right. And it is funny because, you know,you look at comments and stuff and producer dude always just showing me the commentsand it's like I literally get shit for doing a release video. People.What do you say? We got release solar fish, like me, justreleasing a fish, and you'll learn if you already have, and I meanyou're gonna have to fish to know. Social media is just a bunch ofkeyboard commandos. But but the yeah, but you know, I probably release, I don't know, hundreds of trophy fish every year on my trips,which I don't know anybody else that does that. Here of guidewise and likehere guy keeps a fish of lifetime and it's like man, I got noproblem with that. I really do. Writ Right. I'm the same way. I mean, you know, I a mean part of its understanding theecosystem. I think, I think a lot of guys are really misinformed aboutwhat, like, what's going on out there and like, for example,like Green Bay's kind of what I would consider home body wire. It's basicallymy favorite body of water, one of them at least. And out there, like you know, we have a ton of fish that are twenty eightinches and up, but all the studies that have come out through the DNRand the biologists basically state that those fish that are twenty eight and over,they're not really benefiting the ecosystem as much as, say, like the twothousand two dred and twenty eight five inch females are like those fish. Theireggs have a higher survival rate to get to like hatching, and then theyactually have a those fry that do hatch actually have a better survival rate andour healthier to then reached fingering and so on down the road. So,like, you get a ton of guys where you know they want you throwingall the really big fish back, when you know really those fish aren't reallybenefiting the ecosystem in the way that like those smaller fish that a lot ofguys are still keeping our so, like, you'll never get past that. Imean there's so many guys, and you know that, like you said, keyboard warriors, that are willing to you know, those sling it outwhen they're on the other side of the screen kind of thing. But they'llsay it to your face. Ever, I'll tell you that they like highschool age or whatever. Mean, I know you've been fishing just like me, since you're younger, but obviously when people say they go fishing, youinternally got to roll your eyes sometimes because, like they your thinking of some dudewith a forty ounce and he's, you know, bobber and worm andyou're like no, dude, like all right, I'm into this. I'mhere. Dark to dark. Were you super competitive, like into sports?Is that how this thing started before fishing, or were you kind of like,I mean, I was always competitive. I never really got into like teamsports. I just I don't know, I would always get frustrated. You, you know, you always felt like it wasn't your fault that youlost in like a team sport like it, because it was obviously a group effort. So like the team lost kind of things. So you like yeah, you could go over what you did wrong, but you could never really, you know, put a finger on like oh well, if I wouldhave done this differently, the whole outcome would have change. So, likeI did track and I was very competitive and like track and field and crosscountry and stuff like that. So, like I would say the competitive assactreally came from honestly, every single day we went fishing my dad and Grandpawas a tournament, like they made it fun like for us as kids.Like it was always kind of about, okay, well, who's caught thebiggest fish? For the day kind of thing. So, like, Iwould say that's where we got I mean every time we went out it wasI did not want to get beat my my dad or GRANDPA and whoever elsewas with us. I doing why get beat by them either. And youknow, I would just try to absorb as much knowledge as I could.I mean I've read so many articles on fishing in like my dad used tohave, you know, like laundry toad sized tubs just filled to the topwith in fisherman magazines from like nine s...

...all the way on. And I'veread probably almost every article of Ben Fisherman since probably I would say seventy fiveto seventy six, all the way to the present. Like I don't thinkI've missed an article on fishing in in fisherman and probably yeah, thirty yearsworth of time frank forty years worth of time frame and I'm twenty five.So, like you know, that's huge. Getting the now, you know,I've read all wander you know, Dean Arnoldson, he most Kabaya's ParsonsSpring, like I've read every single DIS or. Dude. He hasn't saidanything of me yet. Have you noticed that? Well, no, Idon't read your stuff, I just watch you. I'm impressed that he whenhe talked about the year that in fisherman like he was, I got allthe uppisode are all the magazines from any named the year the in Fisherman magazinestarted. I don't like keep seventy five like he do that. Yeah,we know those guys, I mean. And I think I started writing forhim in ninety eight, maybe something like that. So there's a few.If you want to backch I almost would guarantee you I've read one of yourarticle because obviously not very rememberable, but I don't remember anything about it.Yeah, that's typical. That's typical. A right bad but like, no, it's not that I wouldn't. I mean the only reason why I notlike backpeddal, like guys names is now, like I didn't even realize who iswriting it. Back then, like when I was ten years old,poring over these magazines, like I didn't know who was writing them. Iwas just reading and just the in. How did you actually make that jumpto fish tournaments? Because I think most people guiding and tournaments that that's kindof their jump when they say, Hey, I don't really want to clock inat a job. You know, I don't want to frame in housesor whatever it is. So but doing it and being successful two different things. But what was that thing like? How? How the first tournament happened? Um, so I want to say I don't evenore remember what year itwas, probably six years ago. A buddy of mine picked up a boatand he's kind of a salmon guy, but he asked me, is like, Hey, do you want to jump into a couple of Willie tournaments?So we did like a small shop tournament in the spring of that year.Then we did three that year. We did small shop turn, we didtwo out of his shop and then we did the battle on Bago. waskind of the one that really kind of Hook me. I would say thefirst, the two shop tournaments or twenty book feels and special. But weactually did pretty good. We took like a fourth and an eighth or somethinglike that out of twenty. So we were kind of like big head,think we're all tough guy, you know, eighteen years old or whatever we wereat the time, think we're top shit kind of thing. And butthen we went into the battle on Bego Eyes Open like Holy Kyle, threehundred and seventy five boat field. This is a little bit more big timeleague here, and we took a hundred and hundred and twenty or something likethat that first year and I decided, you know, at the end ofthat year I was like, all right, it's I got to get a boat. I got to do something. So started shopping around, found theboat I have that I've ran for like the last four years basically, orfive years, and that picked her up that fall in September, started breakingher in, start exploring some more, doing some more, you know,traveling a little bit more. I'd never really I'd always go on like upnorth and northern Wisconsin where my grandparents are from, and fish like the locallakes up there. But I started, you know, fishing a little bitmore. I win a bag O fish too a couple times on Green Bayfor Fawn, and then the next year I was like all right, well, I'm going to jump into the aims here circuit and me and a buddywe jump into that and come out first tournament of season. And this isthis is where really it. This is what's put the chip on my shoulder. I pretty fish for two days and I had like a decent little kindof program running. It was a Fox server into peer is always the aimopener, has been for the last like five years now. And we rollinto our spot on day one, or it's a one day. It waslike a Sunday and I want to say we didn't catch anything for about thirtyminutes and then my body, he hooks into a fish and he's like,Oh, it's got to be snag. So I had put the net backdown, like going back to the front of the boat and he's just like, Oh my God. I turn around and I just see this big softballmouth come out of the water with this big white swim bait shaking in itsmouth, like holy crap, that's definitely not snag. So come back scoopit his biggest fish he'd ever caught. Twenty nine and three quarter inch all. I was our first one. He I was like where'd you hook thatone? He pointed. You know, we tossed that fish back. Ifired out there. Next cast, Bloom I got a twenty seven. Waythat or took the photos on that one.

Center back. Next Fish, twentysix and the ground the rest of the day away for some twenty inches. Well, when you were sitting pretty good. We thought we you know, we didn't think we were going to win it, but we knew wewere going to be top ten or so, and we're actually got this qualified.We took a bunch of our pictures wrong and I got really, reallyupset with that. I was mad at myself. I was, you know, ticked off. I felt like I left my partner down because I wasthe one to take in the pictures and didn't, or I was the oneholding the fish and I think the pictures that ended up getting screwed up.So I super just down on myself and mad about the whole thing. Sowe kind of came back the rest of the year of the vengeance, putanother top ten up. I think we're like lavenuth or something like that,and gain just a on a knowledge, and that's what a really started it. I mean that that drove a kind of a nail into the fire rightthere and just set me off on a tear where I was like I'm goingto figure this stuff out no matter what it takes. And you know,the following year was the first year that Max Wilson and I fish together.So that was two thousand and eighteen and just put together, you know,kind of a mishmash season and managed to just fall into team of the yearkind of. You know, we had some good finishes, but nothing toexpectacular or anything, nothing really crazy. And then two thousand and nineteen wecame back with the you know, whole different mindset and just kind of buriedeveryone on that circuit. You know, we went into the last term ofthe year with, you know, leading and team in the year and butthere's a guy that was chasing us real close behind and I told Max onlike when Tuesday or Wednesday of that prefish that we were going to win it. I'd found a really specific bite that no one else was on. Iknew no one was doing it because they just couldn't the way we're fishing andit is just yeah, and that that really just kind of solidified the factthat, you know, two thousand and nineteen, with the backtoback team theyear winning it at the end of the year. Like I just knew thatin my head I could. I can do this for a living, Ican really chase this, I can push it. I know I can dothe work that's required to make this happen. And Yeah, the rest is histhree last year, I mean, another crazy banner year, and it'shopefully I can keep a rolling. We'll see. I mean, it's soeasy to fall on this and there's so many good people that you fish againstday in and day out, and part of it is, I mean fishagainst the fish to you got, you got beat down first before you canthink about anyone else. I always think about like I ask guys, especiallylike some of my buddies on the bass tour. You know, does thefishing or the business come easier hard for you, or is it kind ofequal? Um, I think that fishing's easier for me. I'm kind ofI wouldn't say I'm an introvert, but like I do sometimes struggle with,you know, interactions with people once in a while. And I'll tell youwhat, I'm one of the worst peoples in the world with names. Likeyou know, I remember, I remember most people's names, but like there'ssomething I get it Bob. Why I get it Bob? This is whyyou didn't remember my problems here. Yeah, remember your articles, like you thinkyou'd at least lied. Yeah, that's I read you also. Imean this is yeah, I mean, yeah, the fishings easier. Youdon't need for me at least. Like well, I'm part of that isI mean, I don't remember who it was. There was a guy.I read someone's Instagram Post like five years ago something, because I was arefor you three years ago, because I was looking, starting to look forsponsors and try to learn the business aspect of it a little bit and up, you know, struggling. I mean as a lot of young anglers inthis, I think, do. And it's discouraging when you, you know, when you reach out twenty five companies in the year and you hear backfrom maybe one, like that's tough, like that's a that's a tough pillto swallow, you know, thinking he did something that deserves, you know, recognition and realizing that you really didn't like you know, you gotta eatthat and you just got to keep going forward as a big part of it. So, like, yeah, because it's like that in anything, likeif you really look at it, like I remember Brandon Pellen at telling hismom. You know, I don't have a plan B because if I do, I'll fall back on it. And I recently had another another guy kindof told me the same thing, which I also would tell you of myself. And yet, you know, when you hear Mom's right, like theydon't want to hear that, like like no, we need something. Idon't hate this. Oh yeah, I did. I can't know mom becauseshe cares, I mean just because it doesn't make sense right. But yeah, you look at it and you look at like even, in my opinion, like a I can ellie, like to dude came out crazy, youknow, he was fishing like a champ. Then he kind of learned like hey, there's a business here, and all these guys like, you know, he hired an agent and you. I could name off other people.I could name a couple guys that are...

...really not, I don't think meand you or other bass guys would say are amazing fishermen, but they're makingbank because they're really good at the business end and promotions and seals. Butyet, like an Iken Ellie, I was I don't know if you've eventhought about it like this, because I still kind of evaluate things all thetime, every day. You know, I can always not fishing tournaments.Now this is a new thing, but he hasn't had not that he's donot that he's not a great fisherman. But I look at it just likewith what I do in my business, when you have to concentrate on somany things and you can't just focus on fishing, that's a hard deal.And like I can ellie when he had so many things going on and he'sgot shows, and I mean dude, it's insane. Like the workload isjust nuts. It's hard to focus on just hey, doing the tournaments andhaving the success, because the guys you're fishing against a lot of them arelike I don't do business, like I just fish. Like Steve Kennedy's inone he's like, I don't do sponsors. You know, he wears an alburnhat and he just fishes. And here's a guy like I can eliethis just going guns out, TV shows, podcast foundations, I mean on andon and on. So you know, I don't think if you look athis finishes, he's done nearly as well, you know. But yetthat's what's required for really the big business plan. And I'm probably something you'llyou'll find out, hopefully not the hard way. Oh No, I yeah, I'm very well aware of like kind of yeah, the workload, Imean really comes down to it. I mean, you know, I couldprobably schedule A podcast three times a week with someone from someplace like if Iwanted to, and I can't handle that. I you know, I pick andchoose the ones that I wanted to do and you know these are dude, wait a minute, did you hear this? Like, I mean hepicked us. I was not, I feel what else heart felt. Butyeah, because, I mean, I'm not going to. I mean wedon't want to crush him because he's the younger. We have had some kindof big time deals on this. We have. Yeah, Oh, yeah, just a couple. I've seen a couple. I'm here. That's mything lately. So, like I'm like I said, I've been staying upuntil like probably two or three in the morning pretty consistently getting, you know, prep for this PWS series, just because my days are busy with dealingwith all the stuff that I can't do that. You know, my daysare dealing with phone calls and, mainly right now, emails, that kindof stuff, touching basis, sponsors, making sure you know my boats comingnext week, all that kind of stuff. So I that's my days and thenobviously, like I still have to find time to prep for all thisstuff that I'm you know, all this fishing that I'm trying to do.So I've been doing in the middle of the night and podcast had been mything man like. I've been digging list into I mean I've watched every singlehead to head interview that's been out there. I've been diving into the anglers thatare in the head to head that you've interviewed. I've watched every singleone of their so far. I watched though, Coata, as I watchedRonnie or not Ronnie, Johnny Candle. I mean there's just a ton ofguys that you know. I listened and I try to learn from everyone andI think that, like you said, like watching these guys that you know, have had success on the business side and the fishing side like and tryingto find that balance point in between is really important. That's part of reasonwhy I'm down to you know, two thousand and eighteen, two thousand andnineteen. I was doing twenty five tournaments a year for two thousand and eighteenand two thousand and nineteen and did fifty tournaments between those two years and likethis year I'll probably maybe touch fifteen, like maybe, and that's like that. We I got you. That pushing it. I'll probably be closer totwelve tournaments this year. I just I'M gonna narrow mind, you feel,to you a little bit on the tournament stuff, focusing on the ones thatI'm doing, and then, yeah, really try to focus in on thebusiness aspect of everything. You know, try to push as many products stuffas I can really, you know, try to do the best I canfor my sponsors and you know, you know, try to be the bestwell rounded Angler I can possibly be. Understand understanding that at that that ages. That's that's huge. I mean at that point in the game, becauseit's just it's pretty much mandatory. You talk to any of the old schoolguys and yeah, that's how that's how that works. But I mean ittakes big balls to even make the jump you did. I mean, tellme a little bit about you know, again, people all the time,I mean we're not talking about what you did or your level or winning ornot any of that, just just saying, Hey, I'm going to quit myday job. I mean, have you done that? Essentially, yeah, pretty. Yeah. So I worked as a mason, like a concretemason for six years almost. I started I was basically eighteen and I quitJanuary, well, last year. That a little bit of my I stilltechnically own an LLC for doing like construction and stuff like that. I don'treally use it as much anymore. A little bit through the winner helped thebuddy or two out to have their companies. So I did a little bit ofsubcontracting through some people, but not not like what I did last year. I still did probably I would say fifty percent of my year was doingconstruction by myself. But yeah, I...

...actually owned a company with a coupleguys for two, two years and then I just got out of it.Honestly, I mean I kind of knew this is this was taking off.I knew this is going to go someplace and it was kind of like,like you said, with what pollenics said, like if you have a plan Bin this like you are going to fall back on it because, Imean, for example, January, February and March in this industry suck.They just do. Like, especially from Wisconsin like we are, froze uppretty much that entire time. I don't I'm not really pursuing anything ice wise. So that time of the year it's tough. I mean it's tight,it's you got to budget yourself appropriately. You got to be smart about yourfinances because your tournament entry fees are starting to become do you got, youknow, boats coming in, you got electronics that you're buying, like allthis stuff, and you know, learning how to manage it. I'm stillin the midst of that, like I still don't have it like figured out, like some of these guys, dot make guys that like October they've soldtheir old boat, they are ordering their new boat, that you know allthat. It just quick, click, click. They've got it down toa science. It's probably in their calendar for ten years in advance kind ofthing. Like it's just one of those deals. Like yeah, you reallyif you want to do this full time, you guys, just do it.You gotta Jump In head first. Just go for it. Don't lookback, don't don't think about, well, what could be or what you know, like you really truly got to want it. You really gotta gofor it and you can't hope back. That's that's what's the best advice Icould give to anyone thinking about trying to do. This is like just doit, especially if you're young. I mean I'm Twenty Six, turned twentysix this year and like, I kind of understand. Like, I mean, I'm either going to do this now or I'm going to look back inthirty years and regret every second that I didn't try to do this like andthen there's no one between. Like you, you're going to do it or you'regoing to look back on it and you're going to wish you would have. And time is the one thing that none of us are guaranteed and youcan't get more of it and are how much you try. So you bettermake your time worth it now and go and live your life. Man.Timing is everything, and I would argue again, I always look at thebest side of things, because they're lightning years ahead of us and they'd bea lot of that's trickle down stuff, right. So, realistically, whenyou look at like guys like a Kevin Van dan them, I mean justthe classic a Rick Clon or somebody that just always doing well, but they'restill not doing quite as well and there's an awful lot of these younger guysthat are coming in and they're using, you know, electronics or they're they'rejust fishing a different way. You know, live sonar right now. I meanthat's huge. I know that's been a part of your game, right. I mean, yeah, don't tell anybody. Maybe maybe a little bit. Yeah, maybe a little bit right, but so that. I mean thatexponentially, because there's a lot of really good fishermen out there that aren'tgoing to pick up on that like you have. Or maybe going because youknow, sometimes you know too much, just like doing well on your wholebody of water. Traditionally, a lot of guys don't do well, especiallythe bigger they are, because you almost have too many memories, right,and you know too much about something and you don't fish the conditions and andsometimes when you're newer and you don't have that you know, you go toa lake and I don't know how many bass terms of the one by guysand it's a bunch that people go, why did you do that? Andhe said, I didn't have any other option. I didn't know, Ididn't know we weren't supposed to go there, that the fish don't go there.Because Kevin Van Das fished thirty tournaments there and high water, low water, muddy water, clean water, spring, fall, summer. But you justgo in there and you're like, I just went with an open mind. That's all I did, right, hey, just your gut. Alot of the times, I think is part of it too, like itjust kind of Hey, I was that this type of body of water andthis kind of conditions and this is what they were doing and I will checkit, even if it's what everyone says that you shouldn't be checking. Imean outside was like I want to a pretty good tear this path stogust onGreen Bay and all of my fish came out of water where there was peopletelling me I wasn't going to catch him there, like they're just like now, that's not really win tournaments this time in the year. That's not whathappens. Yeah, you know, that's just not where they traditionally go.And it's like okay, cool, well, guess what, they're there and Icaught them and I did good. Like it, you know? Youdon't? You know if you think that. I mean they sh have tails man, they got, they're going to swim, they're going to go wherethey want to go, they're going to take number one, they're going tochaste bait. They're going to go wherever the food is, and that's that'sthe biggest game you got to play, is what are the fish feeding moonlike? And then you just follow. That's kind of all it comes downto. It in my book make it sound really simple, but it's notso. Like, don't far from the grocery store. You know, that'sexactly I mean. You know, you know, what are you going todo? You know, go and run...

...down a deer or you gonna goand pick up a McDonald's burger? Most days I'm probably going to go andpick up a McDonald's burgers. The true pose to trying to literally chase downand tackle a deer, like it's just a way one, because he's avery clean eater. I'm not necessary clean, I'm just not a meat eater.Yeah, he's not a mean like little debbies, though. So,Oh, what should I rack because I work for meat eater, yeah,which is like very irony, is very deep there. So I would say, you know, I think for a young guy, and tell me ifyou've experienced this, because again, I've been there. It just just beenit's been a long time. I think that young guys, you have tohave confidence, like you said, you know, and experience helps with confidence. But I think with old guys or just people that you know look atyou like your success and they'll say, hey, that's cocky, your arroganceto be successful. I mean, dude, I know all the big dogs.You know I'm a lot of these guys are close friends and and youcan call whatever you want. I personally don't care, but I think whenyou're a younger guy you're judged differently. Yeah, but on the same pointthere's an awful lot of younger guys that need to be drop kicked because theyjust they don't seem to get it, you know what I mean. Sothere's like that fine line where they're not helping yourself, and I've wanted tojust you know, if your your big success that you've had in a relativelyshort amount of time, I'm sure you've experienced that worth, whether it's sponsorsor other individuals or just people in the fishing industry or I mean, tellme a little bit about that. Yeah, I mean I think, like I'mconfidence is everything like really like, and there is a fine line betweenbeing confident and cocky. Like I try my artist not to come off ascocky. I know that sometimes I do, and I think, you know,sometimes I look at, you know, what I've been able to do oraccomplish like and I kind of want to be cocky a little bit.You Know Front. They'd be like yeah, look what I'd done. But likeat the same time, like you got to be confident in the moment. I think is kind of the key. At least that's what I've really discovered, or, you know, found and to find my success. Like, if I go out on the morning and I truly believe that I cancatch them that day, I'm probably going to have a pretty good day.If I go out in the morning I'm I got doubts in my mind aboutwhat's going to happen, it's going to be tougher, like, and I'mnot saying that you can't win on those days where you think it's going tobe tough. I mean the first win I ever chalked up with one ofmy good buddies we, I mean I we thought we were in just maybecatch Fisher to like Bamn, it just happened to you know, we landedon the right fish and caught a couple good ones and you know, apositive attitude and positive thinking is huge. A talk about it all the timewith the guys that I fish with. Like, if you get yourself downover, you know, something that happens during the day, or you showup to spot and there's ten other people there, whatever, it is,like, you're alreadysetting yourself up for failure and mean once you go out allownegativity into your life, like it just it spreads and it grows and itjust eats away at you. So you got to keep an open mind,you got to keep up positive thoughts all day long. And you know,producer, do producer, dude, we need to get this guy odd becauseI feel like, well, he's the he's the exact opposite of you times. There's no doubt. There's no doubt. That's it. As he's explaining thisthat that was making me laugh because I'm thinking of all the Times whereRosses in the boat plouting, yelling at me, yelling at whoever's on theboat with them, and that Ny, what are you doing? Yeah,well, I think that, like we may be able to hiring as acouncils to be a good side game for you, because for you you might, I think you need a little bit too, but let's let's just behonest, like I remember Tony Rights, Tony Robin stuff here. If youthink you can, you're right. If you think you can't, you're alsoright. Right, wow, that's deep. That's deep and and it's true,though, like it is like if you if you go out in themorning from takeoff and you think you're gonna have a tough day, it's goingto be a tough day, it just is like you're not in the rightmindset. Pop Brandon Polinic is like he talks about mindset probably more than almostanyone that I really Gerald swindle, he sells the PMA things. I meanyou right, right, Gerald swindow, Carl Jockolson, all those guys like. I mean, if you watch the guy, if you watch the greatsand any of this, you got to be having fun. You gotta beenjoying yourself, whether it is sucking to terrible like and you are eating itor you know, I don't know. I just look at I mean I'veI've visited their world countries and I try to look at it is I gota better all the time, and people like that like that's just the wayI look at it. I've been to places where people really have it bad. So, like any day I's been on the water to great day,you need to be you need to be listening to the producer dude. Ifeel like today, listen, I mean some of the guide clients, youknow, they look at me, look or weird, liquid a big ORLIKU. Youy, what's up? Like our morning was brutal, you know,and I had a bunch of my guys out. I heard the last twodays out there's been tough to see my..., though. I stuck itout and I got it done. I mean, yeah, you get thebig girls. I'd I got the girl, and today we end up like butagain, the whole morning, like if I was fishing a tournament today, producer Dude, you're probably right, I would have been a wreck becauseit was brutal. But the second half of the day, I mean basicallylike I mean, we're the bewitching hour. I just put on a clinic andwe got some bigans. But yet to go through that and you know, and again that's where I mean. I'd like to hear your take onthis, because we talked about that experience thing and there's no right answer.Obviously the right answer on Mondays the wrong answer on Tuesday or in the morningor and they afternoon. It's, you know, the confidence. I stuckit out and I ground it out in the area and part of it wasbecause I just, you know, the water clarity and where all the Iknow where there's not going on. You know, sometimes your options are smallerin the springtime and when you're dealing with spawning fish or, you know,fish that are staging. But the you can look at it from an outside, like if you're doing the TV deal and you're like, well, yeah, I knew that we had to grind it out. My experience, well, realistically, you're just like, I didn't know what else to do.But the cop the keeping the confidence because again, for your when you youknow, I think you started to guide. I know a little bit about guiding, like I've almost five thousand days of doing it, and it's likeyou are a counselor to these people, because they just like yeah, youhave to get it's insane. Like especially want to do loses a big fishlike, I mean country Steve, producer, dude, I mean Goddy. We'veseen many. We've seen it and Ross has not counsole. Well,I don't know. I they would fire me from the aside hot line,like right there over with no, like what I told you're going to loseyour real like what are you doing? I'm like, yeah, I've,you know, I've only done a few guide trips and I felt that wassome with some friends and stuff. But yeah, not know what you're talkingabout. I mean I was just down in Illinois helping one of my goodbuddies, my cancer, out on the Illinois River do some guide churps thispast weekend. We fish Saturday, Sunday and Monday and like we had onebite window really where there's fish bite. Yeah, you know, ten clockand so about noon or so we had fish biting and other than that itwas it was tough the entire time. So you're sitting there and you're tryingto explain that to your clients. Hey, like, you know, just staywith us, stay stick with it. It's going to you know, we'regoing to find some fish, we're going to get some bites. It'sgoing to happen sooner or later here and like it's that's tough man like totry to you know, to try to keep yourself in it to it's hard. Tournament Day get it gets really hard. I mean my aim partners past year, Tristan and I, we were fortunate enough to win name Championship.I'm going Tobago and I'M NOT gonna lie. I was starting to get a littlebit nervous because we were sitting in the spot that we knew that wecould have a shot at winning it at and it was ten Thir thusand andeleven o'clock already and we only had one fifteen inch fish on our card andI was starting to get a little aunt. See and Tristan was kind of like, well, we do we got nothing else, we might as welljust kind of sit here for a little bit longer at least. I meanwe know what's going on out and in the main lake. You can pullup on any rock, humpy one and two, and you could catch,you know, a hundred, twelve, the fifteen injured, but you weren'tcatching anything that was better. So we just sat sat there and ground itout and you know, it's one of those situations where you know now theexperience tells me like okay, well, we sat there and you know,the wind was wrong, the entire time there and then it the wind stoppedfor a little bit and right when that wind stopped during the river and thecurrent picked up just a little bit and it was like a light switch andwe went from having one fish on our car to Christan got back to backfifteen and seventeen. So then we were like in business for like all right, well, we're catching fish now, and I caught a twenty quarter whichfor that tournament at the time, like those were we were not catching thosefish like at all in practice or anything. So I was like, all right, we got something going, we got capitalized and I told Trist andI was like hey, it's your turn, like I'm going to put you pastlike this spot that we kind of know, like there's certain areas therethat like there's definitely like you can kind of put a guy on that areawhere it's like you're not a better shot at getting one, and the it'syour turn and putting you right on it and come through it and he setsthe hook and it's just a toad. Twenty seven and three quarter inch wallI had a winning bag of which is just a monster, and put thatone in the boat and well, I flipped it on the net. First, Tristan's thirty yelling at me. I scooped it, got it, putit in the bottom of the boat. We measured it, realize how bigit was. Took some a ton of pictures because neither of us had itlike ever seen in two thousand and seven three quarter out of Bago. Hetosses it back and, you know, I sit down, I write downon the card, like you know, the length and I flip over realquick to just look at what the weight conversion was and is eight po sixtyeight pounds or something like that. And...

...we had weighed eight point four poundsas our total bag from day one. Stuff, I said laughing. Iwas do we want it like? We literally sat here all day one spotand did the same thing over and over and over and over and over andover and over again. I mean by the end of the day the graftjust looks stupid, weird. You know, we're drifting through a section as sixtyfive feet long. We want to hear a story of fishing story,not long. This is a quick hitter. Okay, ok, but one thingthat we're going to be like, oh my God, like one ofmy one of the bosses at one of my sponsors hit this one. Heget hit by lightning holding a rout on the lake and I'm like, andI've known the guy for ten years, and I'm like what we want that? Give me that one hitter of like what in the just had? Nowyou just set them up, because he's got to live up to being struckby lightning. I mean, when I heard that, did you not like? I'm like, I looked up. Yeah, like what, man,yeah, that's a heart. I don't know if I can one up thatone. You don't have to one up it. You you bring your thingor makes us don't know what. It's really good crazy. It'sperior, likejust the craziest thing I experi because I have something that we definitely even producerdue. He normally goes, I got to cut that because you're going toruin your career, but I mean it's just that's not Sam. Yeah,Oh man, are you? Are you choking, Isaac? Is that whatI heard? I feel like two o'clock one of you. I tell peoplethat I fish a lot and and they think that you know when I saythat, you know I'm talking about ten hour days. So you guys obviouslyknow the fall brawl. You guys know what that's all about. Mike Hansonand I hopped in his boat to two years ago too, falls twenty ninth, fall, two thousand and nineteen, and we fished from Friday night atabout four o'clock in the evening and we didn't get off the water until Sundaymorning at thirty in the morning. We had the generator on the boat,we have the stove, we had our sleeping bags. We literally two anda half days on the water out there. That's I say, that's probably oneof the wildest ones. I mean producer due to shaking his head.The pooping. I thought that I was awful. Yeah, that and that. What made me think of that was when you said there are stories Ican't tell, but yet you told me the pooping story. So I wasthinking, what else could there even be? I have many. I have poopingstories that I can categorize as a male, female, young, oldeven by like my list of pooping stories. We have a loose we have alist of pooping stories. Now, yeah, yeah, that was probablyI mean that's probably one of the most like spur the moment, I callwe we talked to each other on like a Thursday and was like the nextday we were had now, like literally the day after thanks gave me,we were like left in the morning, got the ear, you hit thewater and didn't get off until the ball was basically over. I give meis. That was pretty crazy. Actually, two weeks so we just went downone of the I just broke through over quarter mile, probably closing andand a half mile of ice to get on out on the Green Bay.Literally was I was driving. I've got a video I could send you,guys. I was drug. We were driving my my boat up onto likesix to eight inches ice and Latin it fall through it, and then drivingup on the next sixty inches and that it fall through. Like we didthat like for an hour to get through that, like it was pretty wild. I don't know. There's some press scratches in that my old boat,that's for sure. Skilled one to ten producer. Dude, I don't I'mgonna give them one more chance because I mean, I'm not calling you outhere, but I feel like, I mean, he's a young guy,like, I mean, it could be a vagina story even God. God. I mean, Dude, you want to you want it. You wanta good one. Oh Man, you here. Ma Max likes telling thisstory more than anyone. Yeah, I hit like the launch one morning better, I'm already liking I dotn't know, a boat launch one morning after afun night out party and in town I've never been to down in Nebraska.But yeah, that that was interesting. I got I got picked up byanother group of Anglers and I had explained my whole situation to them in themorning and they just started dying laughing. And then Max is about ready tokill me by the time I got back because I was already late. Soyeah, that was a fun one, though. That was I won't gointo too many details because if mama watches this one show kick my ass,that's for sure. Okay, you redeemed yourself a little bit, but nexttime you're going to have to bring it. You know. I got a couplethat. Yeah, there's one or...

...two stories that I can like moreof, just fun fishing stories, but yeah, we'll save those, friend. Just make one up for next time. Yeah, all right, all right, sounds good. Yeah, I was struck by lightning while pack twentypound Walleye. And Yeah, just just in case we get ripped off theairways or thrown off the Internet again. Give us one thing. I likethese people like this for use or did love them? He you got torealize I producer duties. I like them when they work. He's right,because I do. We've literally I've asked people some stuff that I think it'seasy going. Like, I mean, I do a lot of these thingsand I'm like, I know, I I don't have anything prepared, butI come up with something. I feel like hey, and then some ofthese dudes producer do they say? They're they go like so I'm going togive an easier one because I know you're really one to see. He's young, he's Gutten shot, he's not as confident some see. He thinks hemay lose a sponsor or something. I might have to go smooth it overformer you know whatever. Sure, yeah, probably it's not gonna help you atall, but I mean maybe there's one company that I could help youwith. But so what's the average fisherman's like? Deserve a simple thing thatyou see that the average fisherman does wrong that you think is easily correctable.Yeah, they're not paying attention enough what they're doing they you watch so manyguys just looking around doing something, not like they're not. I mean,if you watch me in the boat, I'm hawking my Rod, my realwhatever, whether I'm pulling boards, jigging, like I am one hundred percent livingin that moment, I think. I mean if you, if youeven just watch other people for a little bit, there they're watching you,they're watching the other guy to the other side of them. There's paying attentionto what everyone else is doing. If you're paying attention with someone else isdoing, you're not going to notice what you're doing wrong and you're really notgoing to know. You know, you're going to miss what you did rightto get that bite that you you did, like you know, there's so manytimes we're just a little change in cadence or just a slight change inspeed or something like that is the difference can get in by or not.You miss that. You missed it. Areiod. I feel like you're done. Producer Dude. He has. He has absolutely redeemed himself and and we'regoing to close with a short story with the producer due just part of wehad Chris Big Chris, you know that it works for me. were runningguide trips. You remember we were filming a jigging show and it was notgoing well. We were trying to make a jigging show happen when a jiggingbite wasn't even on the radar June. It was like it was like yeah, we're trying to Jig the reefs of June on Lake area, which wasover, like you know, but it was like it's a long story,Dude. As part of the business end of things, right, we're likewe don't have we we can do a jigging show. So we're like catchingsheep. Had White Bass, but a rate. Chris had just had,I think it's first baby at that point, and so you know, Mama's calling, you know how that stuff goes, and I kept getting bites every timeyou would check his phone and producer, dude, who is like, Imean is is official, like a least knowledgeable fisherman ever, because you'renot really a fisherman, right, okay, fair, and he was the mostknowledgeable non fisherman. He's gaining stir so now he was literally like Hey, he's told like Chris, I mean, who's a rock star. I meanwe're talking through this team of the year out here, I mean thedudes a rock star, and he was like Hey, Chris, I'm nofisherman, but every time you check your phone you catch, literally catch,a fish every single time. And like we went back on that show andlike showed and he was dropping his rod. It was like every time he wasjust doing the same thing and I start watching them and then we startedcatching and there's the rest of his history. So there goes. Sometimes, youknow, cadence, cadence is everything Bariod. When you're Jaking, cadenceis the most important thing you're doing. How I appreciate you taking the timeto come on here, because he's had other opportunities. He's turned some down. Producer. Do you digits feel real good? It kind of does.You know. I feel like now we may get him again if he getsreally big. You know, I'm anytime you want to have me on onmore than one to come and time well, we appreciate your time. Thank youfor tuning in the big water podcast. CHECK US out a big water fishingcominstagram, facebook, Youtube. What else? I forgetting the audio podcast, audio podchasted, Google podcast, apple podcasts. I miss in one spotify. If you can't find that you don't have google or you ain't trying hardenough. Big Water fishing big waters. One word thanks, Isaac. Goodluck to you in the upcoming season, and other than that, we areout of here. It's time to go fishing the.

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